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100-puzzle test
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#527
daniel (Moderator)
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 11  
PS: I encourage you to keep trying 4-10 Dani. But be careful and pay attention to every single movement you do, because when you first solve the puzzle with 0 moves, you will hardly remember how you did it (at least that happened to me )

That's a good tip, thanks. Although I'm more of a "method-guy"... can't believe this 4-10 can be solved by pure chance.

Interestingly enough I spent like half an hour yesterday at it, and man... I have to say, Super Congratulations to all those who did it, _especially_ the first person to have done it!!
Doing it with no moves (although, of course, I'm contemplating raising and lowering a block "bridge" and going for the exit carrying a block) is a piece of work!!
I mean, I still can't do it, and I think I won't... you see, if it doesn't get any fun for me I tend to let go easily, for sanity (and also time) reasons.
But I'll try to "think about the possible routes one might take" in my own wondering time although I think the better outcome must be from playing hard at it.
I mean, I already (and maybe like most of us) had pondered the possibility of doing it 0 moves, but found it, as of now, impossible. Even thinking about still does, the way the blue and yellow switches are so for apart, man, it's crazy!!

So the real kudos goes to the first person who did it! (and made everyone else have a more realistic goal)
I have yet to go to the spreadsheet to find that out, but I'd say maybe Bernie did it?

Happy solving.
 
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Last Edit: 2009/05/30 13:47 By daniel.
 
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#528
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 5  
Hi Daniel
I'm very glad that you are here! Your spreadsheet is a great work for all PQ2 players. It help me so much! Thank you!
for the 4-10,I don't know if I'm the first one who found the 0 move solution at that puzzle. But in your spreadsheet, I'm the first one who updated the 4-10 with a score of 0-move solution . At first, I get 0 move and 34 sec. but now you see,it was successively raised by Adri and Van3,so high that I can't maximize it with Van3's now.
Now I still have 8 puzzles can't maxmize.
1-7: 110%
4-3: 125.9%
4-5: 109.4%
4-10: 351.5%
6-5: 105%
9-3: 114.2%
10-6: 251.8%
10-5: 102.9%
By the way,did you just spend half an hour on puzzle 4-10?It's too short.When I beat the puzzle,it took me almost one day to find the way.So if you can spend more time on it ,maybe you'll find the solution.

Bernie
 
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 5  
Bruce

In the last time of replay the 100-test,I started to take some screen shot to record the key of solutions.But I just did it at very few puzzles,Because I continuously replay the 100-test three times in recent 2 months, I can remember the solutions of every puzzles quickly!

Bernie
 
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Last Edit: 2009/05/29 17:43 By bernie.
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 7  
Bernie,

Strictly speaking as a "noobologist"
I would have to agree with you.

I think that it's better for one's
memory as well as gaming sharpness to
store a mental image of the strategy
for beating each of the 100-puzzle
tests. Sometimes, one can conjure up
better strategies for defeating existing
puzzles that way.

--Adam
 
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#531
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 11  
Hey Bernie, that's a very nice work, there.
In the spreadsheet I had made a kind of a joke to find the pq2 gods, where only one of us could attain a certain score, so I guess I can eliminate all of them except those, and the ones whose record you own, for sure.
Just did that and updated the spreadsheet. Seems like the only candidate pq2-gods are you, Adri and van3, that 4-10 in 20/0 has got to be the best, ever!

Just out of curiosity I checked 1-7, because I still don't have my original profile working, and remembered that Fast Turning sometimes makes a huge difference, for example in 1-7 it's possible to get immediately to the cop station and pick up the box making him leave by the "down" side, not left. I'm not telling it's the solution; just so anyone can practice and until you can get that you can never say that you FT good enough.

I can only also do 110% on this one, 14 seconds seems downright impossible since I arrive on the "upper" part of second 15!, but Adri has matched van3's record and he wrote "no FT".
 
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Last Edit: 2009/05/29 21:13 By daniel.
 
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#532
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 8  
Wow Bernie, you are a genious.

Even if I repeated the 100-test everyday I think I would still have some puzzles in which I had to check the answer to solve them properly.


It was exactly how Bernie said: he was the first to settle 4-10 to 0 moves; then me with 6 seconds less than him and now van3 with 8 seconds less than me!!!!

And also Bernie has been the first one to solve 9-9 in 0 moves. You're a really a worthy player, Bernie!!! (that doesn't mean the rest of you aren't, dudes )


Adam, I agree with you that by repeating the same process, the same movements all the time your brain "gets used" to it and it becomes easier to memorize, or in other words, easier not to forget. The images you see are stored and afterwards might be used to solve other exercise in which a similarity with the previous is found. In a way, it "sharpens" your strategy, your solution view.


Dani, of course I didn't mean solving the puzzle by chance, I just wanted to say that usually, when I solve a puzzle for a first time and then try to redo it it's difficult for me to remember exactly how I did it, specially the timing.

Adri
 
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PQ2-CoMaster

- Would make sense if a rich says "I'd like to be rich"? - Clearly no - And what about "I'd like to be rich forever"? - Yes, that would make sense - Indeed, my friend, we don't just want the good things, but we want them forever

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#533
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 8  
I've just checked it. Info about PQ2 Gods. Remaining unique puzzles:

-Bernie: 8
-Adri: 4
-Van3: 1

Cheers everyone!!!
 
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Last Edit: 2009/05/29 21:20 By Adri.
 
PQ2-CoMaster

- Would make sense if a rich says "I'd like to be rich"? - Clearly no - And what about "I'd like to be rich forever"? - Yes, that would make sense - Indeed, my friend, we don't just want the good things, but we want them forever

Foreigner said to Socrates
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#534
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 11  
9-9 in 0 moves?? WTF??? :-p

Bernie, you're the "look ma' no hands, no moves" Moveless-Master, man!

I'm... I'm flabbergasted... how can that even be? There's one police box in the way to the finish, somebody has to drag that thing and detectives don't do that! wow... I remember I was first to lower that one to 2 moves, lots of people then improved the time, but you sir, you just zero-move-rock!

UPDATE: Did 4-10 - 0 moves, in like 15 mins trying time. Best I got was 30 seconds 358.3% (little variations went to 33, 34, seconds). 20 is not possible the way I do it but I'm very happy as it is! Now, I'm really clueless to 9-9 "moveless".
 
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Last Edit: 2009/05/30 10:38 By daniel. Reason: UPDATE
 
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#535
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 8  
9-9 amazed me and caught my eye for a long time... until I improved the mark. But Bernie is simply, as Dani said, the Moveless-Master.

Dani, congrats for 4-10. You did it !! I was trying also yesterday to get closer to van3 and I could improve my own mark from 28 seconds to 24. But 20 seems to be almost impossible, it must be the most precise and perfect puzzle to solve, the one which requires more accuracy.

Update on PQ2-Gods (the sheet wasn't properly filled as when Bernie set some records he didn't erase the previous holders):

-Bernie: 10
-Adri: 9
-Van3: 1
 
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Last Edit: 2009/05/30 13:25 By Adri.
 
PQ2-CoMaster

- Would make sense if a rich says "I'd like to be rich"? - Clearly no - And what about "I'd like to be rich forever"? - Yes, that would make sense - Indeed, my friend, we don't just want the good things, but we want them forever

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#537
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 5  
Hi everybody
It looks like there's a party!!
Daniel: Thanks for your help at 1-7,I will try it.FT is your great discovery!You are FT master! I'm not very skillful to use it by now!
At 9-9,you will need the help of police at two spots.But only use the police,you can do nothing,so at one spot you should use the detective to help the police,the other spot you should use the lasser ray.
Moveless master sounds quit well,but I found the two 0-move solutions at 4-10 and 9-9 just by chance and good luck,and now Adri and Van3 have broken the records,drove me out of the spreadsheet! and your score at 4-10 is also higher than me. So if I'm master,you three must be super master hehe!
Adri: Shall we get ready to cheer for your new 100-test score? I just checked the spreadsheet,It looks like you have broken my overall score at 100-test.Great work! I never consider that you can get it so speedy!I can't sleep with out thinking pq2 now. Congratulations for you!
 
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#538
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 8  
I think maybe in a few weeks I'll be able to pass you Bernie, but that won't be until I improve 9-7, with which I have very serious problems .

But then it'll be MY time to think continuously of you getting prepared to re-oust me again .

As for van3, I don't know if he is or not preparing his revange secretly. Maybe he'll surprise us overpassing 60k or something else almost unbelievable .
 
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PQ2-CoMaster

- Would make sense if a rich says "I'd like to be rich"? - Clearly no - And what about "I'd like to be rich forever"? - Yes, that would make sense - Indeed, my friend, we don't just want the good things, but we want them forever

Foreigner said to Socrates
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#540
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 5  
Adri:
I think that you can already get to be the No.1 of 100-test,even if you haven't maximized the puzzles 9-7 and 10-7.
Are you going to make a score of never-surpassing?
Like adam said:Would you guy please slow down a bit!! Take a PQ2 holidy and give us a chance.

---Bernie
 
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#541
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 11  
FT is your great discovery!You are FT master! I'm not very skillful to use it by now!


I can certainly accept the credit for publicly "exposing" it and coining the name (I very much like to give new names to new things) but maybe more people were doing it unknowingly, just as I was, while furiously trying to speed things up.

The best thing I can tell you about my current (and presumably best) FT technique has to do with the position of the hands. I've come a long way since having to rest the psp on some solid ground and use more than one finger of each hand, to nowadays just spreading my left thumb all over the controls and achieving a pretty comfortable position while, as always preferred, grabbing the psp in a "normal" way with both hands.
In any case, practice makes perfect, if you get a better technique, just let us know.


Moveless master sounds quit well,but I found the two 0-move solutions at 4-10 and 9-9 just by chance and good luck

Wow, now that's a surprise. Here I was thinking that you went all your way after an idea that 0 moves could be done and it turns out "serendipity" seems like the best word to describe how you achieved it... well, another myth destroyed, eheh, but I don't quite buy into that theory for 9-9, so I still dub you sir moveless-master.

A master for me is the one who creates from nothing, the others are just copy-cats (one could also say "good students" when they take the masters concept and are able to stretch it even further and that, my friends, is all the joy of life). :-p
 
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Last Edit: 2009/05/31 19:15 By daniel.
 
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#543
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 8  
Bernie,

Not yet I'm going to get a never-surpassing score, but for the moment I'd like just to pass you. You might think that with my current scores I may pass you, but I'm not that sure...

That would be another topic to think about: do you guys think that ever anyone would have the highest reachable score? The "never-overpassable" one? Can anyone be that perfect?

I think that only if we shared an user and each one did the puzzles where he has the highest score (with no time loose), then that will be the top score. In any other case, noone would ever achieve that score (hopefully for competitivity).
 
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- Would make sense if a rich says "I'd like to be rich"? - Clearly no - And what about "I'd like to be rich forever"? - Yes, that would make sense - Indeed, my friend, we don't just want the good things, but we want them forever

Foreigner said to Socrates
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#544
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 11  
Wow, you're really getting "serious" here!

Let me just, for the benefit of the discussion, share some thoughts.

I believe anyone could make that perfect, top score, given the needed time (not easy for me to get but I guess easier for many people) and the posession of all solutions from all known top scores (lesser available to any single individual). But it would really be an effort in the sense that if you fumbled on a given puzzle you'd have to exit without saving or reload from a profile backup... each time you fumble!

Even with both those tools, we would have to understand that any new record, appearing in any given time, would render that effort useless (remember: really top top score, not a second wasted, to be sure) because even if you had backed up a profile with the complete test before submitting you would have the wasted time in the new puzzle solution to update (granted that it could make no difference if small enough, but we don't understand the time-bonus completely yet).


So my take on the subject is this: have fun and just submit your current status, according to what you can do at the moment. Like the saying goes "there's always a bigger fish" and it's less stressful to try to face this as personal development, rather than eating other fish.
 
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 7  
Question: Are the "PQ2 gods" always
finishing the 100-puzzle test with
over 2 hours remaining?

You gain at least 1 extra point for
every minute that you have left over,
don't you?

I'm still stumped on the last two
puzzles 10-9 and 10-10, so it sometimes
doesn't pay to spend a lot of time
on these since it ends up subtracting
points from the overall score.

--Adam
 
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#551
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 8  
Adam,

I've never overpassed 2 hours when solving the 100-test. In fact, in just once it took me more than one hour and 15 minutes. But this rate depend on the assimilation of the puzzles and its solution, and in the speed and accuracy your fingers have.

Don't worry too much about been stumped on 10-9 and 10-10. As you know, you can try them again and again on the Collection mode and then, when you are confidence with the puzzle, solve it in the test.

Dani, you're right. It'd be a waste of energy and time if someone updates the sheet after you had completed perfectly all 100 puzzles. Though, in any case, I can't imagine a player solving ALL the puzzles at the highest percentage. For example, I think I'm a good puzzle solver, but there are some in which (although the difference is of a second) I can't see myself achieving the top score. That doesn't mean that other players can't do it either, but for me is extremely complicated.

And I agree with you, for me is not fun enough just trying to beat the f*$/ing puzzles in which I can't reach the best score. So we'd better (as the song says) "relax, take it easy...".

Adri
 
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- Would make sense if a rich says "I'd like to be rich"? - Clearly no - And what about "I'd like to be rich forever"? - Yes, that would make sense - Indeed, my friend, we don't just want the good things, but we want them forever

Foreigner said to Socrates
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#552
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 11  
And I agree with you, for me is not fun enough just trying to beat the f*$/ing puzzles in which I can't reach the best score. So we'd better (as the song says) "relax, take it easy...".

(great song... I take it from here and keep on singing)
"You're still young, that's your fault, there's so much you have to know. Find a girl, settle down, if you want you can marry. Look at me, I am old, but I'm happy"

I hope you know that song from Cat Stevens is called Father & Son, so I guess where paying tribute here to Adam & Son, what a cool way to go full circle.
 
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 7  
Bernie,

You should talk

Why don't you slow down and don't
worry about Adri reaching the top
spot?

Try some of the weekly puzzles once
in a while. I never see you listed
on there. It would be nice to see
more participation in that area.
Besides, then you'd be the only one
from China to play the weekly test.
So if you weren't the top player on
the weekly test, at least you'd be the
top player from China

Have you created any puzzles? I was
compiling a great list of user puzzles
and my son decided to restrict our puzzles
to Adri's. So now we have a list of primarily
Adri's puzzles.

And your score on puzzle 10-7 (glass blocks &
lasers) is terrific but I find it incredible
that 37 block moves can't be improved. That's
one of those puzzles that you keep asking yourself,
Why is there such a plethora of block moves?

--Adam
 
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Re:Surprise 9 Years, 4 Months ago Karma: 5  
adam
Infact,because of bussy in working , I have seldom played the pq2 game in recent 2 weeks.
I played weekly tests three or more months ago,and in some of them I can get to the top place.I will consider to come back and play the weekly test soon after I get out of my recent working task!
I have never tried to create puzzles,because lazy or lack of creative.I don't know! maybe I like solving rather than creating!
for 10-7,I can only reduce the time but the moves.too many moves leads the puzzle very complicate and difficult to find a new solution.
at the end I want to know who is CES+ ? If he isn't in our forum and never saw the spreadsheet,I think he is a real genius!

--Bernie
 
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